The Fashion Issue: Roundtable with Michelle Rios, Amina Galal and Noyonika Sircar
Can a woman in fashion have it all? Is the fashion industry really inclusive? How can we live of fashion? We tried to answer some of the doubts, fears, and questions that often arise after graduation with three of our notable alumni who are working in fashion in Paris.
BY GIULIA TACCHI
How important do you think it is to go with the flow, or planning every step?
Amina: I am someone who always has a plan for the years ahead of me. But in the past six months, I learned that the path that is most likely gonna happen is the one you least expect. After graduation I started working in textiles and accessories, which is not at all what I expected to be doing. Then I liked it so much that by the time I moved to ready-to-wear, I wasn’t sure I even wanted to move there. And now I’m thinking of doing my masters in accessories, or bags, or shoes, maybe even knitwear, something that differs a bit from my bfa, just to explore.
Noyonika: When something doesn’t work out the way you want, there is something else that is working out, and that will take you to a better place.
Amina: But to get to this mentality, and learning to trust the process was so hard for me.
Noyonika: My biggest advice would be to have a fixed goal, but a flexible path. Don’t compromise on the goal, move ahead and never give up. The right opportunity and the right job will find you. Just keep on building your Lego and the house will be fine.
Michelle: I think it’s important to open yourself to being curious about certain areas, and keep an open mind, because there are so many jobs that exist that you don’t even know about.
What would you say people in fashion wanna see in someone who is entering the industry?
Amina: I’m somebody that would always work regardless of my mental or physical state. I always thought the harder you get, the better the outcome, but that’s not true. You need to prioritize your physical well-being and be in good health to continue.
Noyonika: You bring value to the chair, not the other way round
Amina: Something I realized is that fashion is not necessarily a meritocracy; it’s not because you’re very good that you’ll get the job. Most of the time, people wanna work with people who they enjoy the company of.
Michelle: Yes, it’s so true. Personality hires.
Amina: After school, it took me a super long time to find an internship. It was such a hard process. All the interviews I would go to, I would always show how invested and hardworking I was. Then the one interview where I just went with the attitude of “if you want me, good for you” is the one of the job I ended up getting. It’s about being good, but also about being nice, and having your personality show. And as long as you have a good personality, and you’re friendly and nice, I think you’ll be fine. [laughs]
Michelle: I also feel like when you start working, you don’t really wanna be your actual self at work. It actually took nine months for me to be like: “this is actually who I am.”
Amina: Exactly, you start being very formal and professional, and this is exactly what they don’t want you to be. People in fashion are a bit of crazy-heads and they want you to be a crazy-head too, they want someone who mixes well with them.
Michelle: Yeah, it’s so true. When you start working, you really want to prove yourself and do everything possible. But it’s not right to do that because then you’ll have a difficult time marking boundaries. People respect you more when you’re an assertive and self-secure person. That’s something you have to learn by experience in a hard way.
Noyonika: But who teaches you how to do it?
Amina: Experience
Michelle: You have to throw yourself at it.
Noyonika: I would also add that it’s really important to find the right mentor. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go further, take a mentor.
How did you find your mentor?
Noyonika: I just DM them on Instagram. “Hi, I like your work. I want to work with you”. They said, “Let’s meet for a coffee.” Then, a bit later, one of them needed help and reached out to me, and needed help, and she called me. Fashion is so much in the gatekeeping mindset, that you have to network to get in.
At the beginning, networking is difficult: you don’t know how to talk, what to say, and how you can add value… But it will get easier. What you do might not reflect in the first three months, but in the longer run, if the people you meet have good values, and remember you, they will push you forward. It’s also important to find people who have a similar journey. If they’re an outsider, like in my case, they know how to enter the space and push through the gates.
What space is there currently for inclusivity in fashion?
Noyonika: It happened to me that coworkers implied that I wasn’t experienced enough to be part of the discussion. And the fact that I was from a different background had an impact too. They were always pushing that it was a French brand, and that they knew how it worked. This is unfortunately how things work, but you have to grow your skin and get through it.
Michelle: Standing your ground is very important. For instance, I have an assistant job, and for other people, an assistant role is just a supportive and service job. And if people see it like that, they can take advantage of the title. So, in my case, it’s also a power dynamic within the hierarchical nature of fashion. But even if these structures of power exist, it’s important to stop the cycle.
Amina: The culture you come from, especially here in France, plays a big role in how you are perceived too. Sometimes even just by reading your name, people already have an image of what kind of person you are. During an interview I was subjected to a racist comment from a big brand, and that was the first time I got subjected to something like this, having lived abroad my whole life.
Noyonika: Stop categorizing people, and start having creatively challenging conversations with them.
Michelle: Yes, it can be performative sometimes.
Noyonika: It’s very important to embrace that, and not be just a face on a website.
Amina: I agree. Then, sometimes discrimination is intentional, but other times it’s the system that automatically discriminates, even if the company itself doesn’t want to. I was talking to someone in a big fashion brand, who was in the process of hiring an English student for an internship. The VISA process was so difficult that they said that from now on, they’ll be leaning toward European candidates, because it will be easier to get them in Paris in time to start the internship when they need them to; so this automatically discriminates against 90% of the world.
What advice would you give to young people who are entering the industry and facing discrimination?
Amina: For me the biggest advice I would give is to not victimize yourself, because you will limit yourself even more. You will be discriminated against for anything, could be age, gender, anything. Accept it and take it as part of the process. Take it as something that will make you stronger, that will make you grow. Your potential could be much bigger than the one you would think if you let this get to you.
Noyonika: I think it’s always important to remember who is giving you an opinion, and to not lose yourself. I’ve met many diverse people who are at the top; they are generally more adaptive, resilient, and open to agree to disagree, and that’s how leaders work. You have to be yourself, that’s what they value in big companies.
As a woman in fashion, can you have it all?
Amina: I mean, realistically, you have to make decisions in life. You can have a family, you can have a healthy lifestyle, you can go to the gym, and you can work, but then it’s about prioritizing. You have to ask yourself: am I someone who’s going to leave work at 6 p.m. every day, and call it a day? Or am I going to be super invested, and stay there super late?
Michelle: Anything is a trade-off. It’s also a privilege to be in France, because it’s the country that has the most laws in protection of the employee. There are things you can allow yourself to do here that you would never be able to do in the U.S., for instance. It’s a healthier work-life balance. ■
This story is from the second issue of Later, the alumni magazine.
Editor & Art Director: Giulia Tacchi @giulytacchi
Photographer: Demir Ramazanov @demirramazanov
Art & Photography Assistant: Iman Salem @imannsalem
Talents: Amina Galal @aminaagalal, Michelle Rios @michellearios, Noyonika Sircar @noyonikxs